<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Q &amp; A on the FeedLounge DNS Saga</title>
	<atom:link href="http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga</link>
	<description>Alex King, Denver Web Developer</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:02:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: 2006 in Review &#124; alexking.org</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-55668</link>
		<dc:creator>2006 in Review &#124; alexking.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-55668</guid>
		<description>[...] upgrading my laptop and do so. A burned up CPU forces an emergency web server move. FeedLounge experiences another outage of sorts and I learn about DNS. My dad and I install a new garage door [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] upgrading my laptop and do so. A burned up CPU forces an emergency web server move. FeedLounge experiences another outage of sorts and I learn about DNS. My dad and I install a new garage door [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Tokash&#8217;s Blog &#187; links for 2006-05-24</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28888</link>
		<dc:creator>John Tokash&#8217;s Blog &#187; links for 2006-05-24</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 21:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28888</guid>
		<description>[...] Q &amp; A on the FeedLounge DNS Outage [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Q &#38; A on the FeedLounge DNS Outage [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Avi Flax</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28883</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi Flax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 16:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28883</guid>
		<description>My 2Â¢: these things happen. I think you guys are doing great. Keep it up, learn from mistakes, move on, forward, upward, growing, etc.

You&#039;ll still get my $5 a month!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 2Â¢: these things happen. I think you guys are doing great. Keep it up, learn from mistakes, move on, forward, upward, growing, etc.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll still get my $5 a month!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28882</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28882</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, Alex.  Not trying to browbeat you, but as FL grows, you&#039;re going to get less of the &quot;this is a cool web app and I know that because I&#039;m a developer myself&quot; crowd and more of the &quot;just because I haven&#039;t pushed the power button on my dell doesn&#039;t mean your application isn&#039;t broken&quot; crowd.  So take it all in stride!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, Alex.  Not trying to browbeat you, but as FL grows, you&#8217;re going to get less of the &#8220;this is a cool web app and I know that because I&#8217;m a developer myself&#8221; crowd and more of the &#8220;just because I haven&#8217;t pushed the power button on my dell doesn&#8217;t mean your application isn&#8217;t broken&#8221; crowd.  So take it all in stride!  <img src='http://alexking.org/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28881</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28881</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I went to your web site PatrickQG, and saw that you were 21 years old.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Now who&#039;s being ridiculous Bill? :P

I do agree, saying the service was up is ... semantic in my opinion.  But I do think Alex has done a good job of coming around and saying &quot;Look, we learned a crappy lesson from this and we&#039;ll do our best to keep it from happening again&quot;.

Expecting an apology for this isn&#039;t absurd or out of the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I went to your web site PatrickQG, and saw that you were 21 years old.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now who&#8217;s being ridiculous Bill? <img src='http://alexking.org/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I do agree, saying the service was up is &#8230; semantic in my opinion.  But I do think Alex has done a good job of coming around and saying &#8220;Look, we learned a crappy lesson from this and we&#8217;ll do our best to keep it from happening again&#8221;.</p>
<p>Expecting an apology for this isn&#8217;t absurd or out of the question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PatrickQG</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28875</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickQG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 07:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28875</guid>
		<description>Bill: How kind of you. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything naive about being strong in my belief that there&#039;s no point (when you&#039;re running a service) mincing words about when it&#039;s alive or not. Maybe the services I&#039;ve run have had different clients - they certainly wouldn&#039;t accept &quot;well, it was just the dns, the application was still running... even though you couldn&#039;t reach it&quot;.

Let me assure you their is nothing &quot;simple&quot; about my view of the world.

Kevan: the only real problem with a dyndns entry is how to let your user know about it. And of course going to a third party dns provider would have still had the same delays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill: How kind of you. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything naive about being strong in my belief that there&#8217;s no point (when you&#8217;re running a service) mincing words about when it&#8217;s alive or not. Maybe the services I&#8217;ve run have had different clients &#8211; they certainly wouldn&#8217;t accept &#8220;well, it was just the dns, the application was still running&#8230; even though you couldn&#8217;t reach it&#8221;.</p>
<p>Let me assure you their is nothing &#8220;simple&#8221; about my view of the world.</p>
<p>Kevan: the only real problem with a dyndns entry is how to let your user know about it. And of course going to a third party dns provider would have still had the same delays.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevan</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28873</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 06:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28873</guid>
		<description>As a thought, you could always have registered a dyndns (or similar) entry, and tell people to use it. Since they run a real short TTL, it would at least be something quick to give people that went to the right spot. Don&#039;t know the dyndns policy on commercial use/bandwidth/query limits, but worth a shot.

You could also outsource your DNS to someone like dnsmadeeasy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a thought, you could always have registered a dyndns (or similar) entry, and tell people to use it. Since they run a real short TTL, it would at least be something quick to give people that went to the right spot. Don&#8217;t know the dyndns policy on commercial use/bandwidth/query limits, but worth a shot.</p>
<p>You could also outsource your DNS to someone like dnsmadeeasy&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28870</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 05:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28870</guid>
		<description>I went to your web site PatrickQG, and saw that you were 21 years old. Ahh to be young, idealistic and naive again. The world must be very simple for you right now - enjoy it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to your web site PatrickQG, and saw that you were 21 years old. Ahh to be young, idealistic and naive again. The world must be very simple for you right now &#8211; enjoy it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PatrickQG</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28869</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickQG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 01:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28869</guid>
		<description>Ok Bill, I&#039;ll add something to the end of that statement &quot;If I can&#039;t get to something &lt;strong&gt;because of something under the control of those running the service&lt;/strong&gt;, it&#039;s down&quot;. Does that seem less &quot;rediculous&quot;? Because it was kind of implied.

---
I can certainly understand how you could feel that way, but there is a little bit of a difference. The way the DNS...
---

Uh, no, the way DNS works isn&#039;t relevant. If the user can&#039;t get to it, it&#039;s down. The only difference to an end user is symantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok Bill, I&#8217;ll add something to the end of that statement &#8220;If I can&#8217;t get to something <strong>because of something under the control of those running the service</strong>, it&#8217;s down&#8221;. Does that seem less &#8220;rediculous&#8221;? Because it was kind of implied.</p>
<p>&#8212;<br />
I can certainly understand how you could feel that way, but there is a little bit of a difference. The way the DNS&#8230;<br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>Uh, no, the way DNS works isn&#8217;t relevant. If the user can&#8217;t get to it, it&#8217;s down. The only difference to an end user is symantics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28868</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 23:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28868</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If I canâ€™t get to a service, itâ€™s down.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow, I think that&#039;s one of the most ridiculous things I&#039;ve ever read.

Oh look - I unplugged my network cable, and every web service and web site in the world was DOWN!

And I also think you guys are being absurd asking for an apology. They were clearly trying to get things working again, isn&#039;t that the important thing? Anyone can give an apology. I&#039;d rather have action over words any day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If I canâ€™t get to a service, itâ€™s down.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, I think that&#8217;s one of the most ridiculous things I&#8217;ve ever read.</p>
<p>Oh look &#8211; I unplugged my network cable, and every web service and web site in the world was DOWN!</p>
<p>And I also think you guys are being absurd asking for an apology. They were clearly trying to get things working again, isn&#8217;t that the important thing? Anyone can give an apology. I&#8217;d rather have action over words any day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PatrickQG</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28867</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickQG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 23:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28867</guid>
		<description>Robert: except that doesn&#039;t help you with your authentication cookies, now does it?

Seriously, you&#039;re splitting hairs with the service being available thing. If I can&#039;t get to a service, it&#039;s down. Simple. If I can&#039;t get into my car, then I can&#039;t drive it. Simple. Either way feedlounge was unavailable for a long period of time.

Other than that I&#039;ll just second Jeremy&#039;s comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert: except that doesn&#8217;t help you with your authentication cookies, now does it?</p>
<p>Seriously, you&#8217;re splitting hairs with the service being available thing. If I can&#8217;t get to a service, it&#8217;s down. Simple. If I can&#8217;t get into my car, then I can&#8217;t drive it. Simple. Either way feedlounge was unavailable for a long period of time.</p>
<p>Other than that I&#8217;ll just second Jeremy&#8217;s comments.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28866</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 21:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28866</guid>
		<description>If people dont want to wait for DNS to propagate they should be able to get to it by typing the ip address of the feedlounge server directly (not sure what it is since DNS is down ;) into the browser. 

There really isnt any reason you need to mess around with the whole DNS server thing unless you are doing name based virtual hosts or something else like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people dont want to wait for DNS to propagate they should be able to get to it by typing the ip address of the feedlounge server directly (not sure what it is since DNS is down <img src='http://alexking.org/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  into the browser. </p>
<p>There really isnt any reason you need to mess around with the whole DNS server thing unless you are doing name based virtual hosts or something else like that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28864</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 15:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28864</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys.

Just a little more info on the previous post: I took 5 minutes to throw it on the new server right after the old server died - as we were franticallly tring to get the new server up. When I wrote it, we didn&#039;t yet know that FeedLounge was going to be affected at all - hence the hasty UPDATE to the post after the fact.

When I added the UPDATE, I had already posted an explanation and mea culpa on the FeedLounge blog, problem was people couldn&#039;t get to it and thought that the little PS I added to that post was it.

Couple that with confusion about how DNS works and the most innocent things can get misunderstood - I didn&#039;t fully realize the communication problem until late last night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys.</p>
<p>Just a little more info on the previous post: I took 5 minutes to throw it on the new server right after the old server died &#8211; as we were franticallly tring to get the new server up. When I wrote it, we didn&#8217;t yet know that FeedLounge was going to be affected at all &#8211; hence the hasty UPDATE to the post after the fact.</p>
<p>When I added the UPDATE, I had already posted an explanation and mea culpa on the FeedLounge blog, problem was people couldn&#8217;t get to it and thought that the little PS I added to that post was it.</p>
<p>Couple that with confusion about how DNS works and the most innocent things can get misunderstood &#8211; I didn&#8217;t fully realize the communication problem until late last night.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28862</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 14:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28862</guid>
		<description>Alex, I think some of the resentment stems from the fact that in all the communications from you and Scott talking about this problem, there really wasn&#039;t ever a straight up apology.  It had the tone of &quot;it was the server&#039;s fault - we didn&#039;t do it!!!&quot;  

That may seem over-the-top to you, but it&#039;s important for users that the admins take responsibility for the issue and demonstrate that they understand this is about customer service, not obscure technical issues.  I know you work really hard to make FL a great service, but sometimes I think you might believe we&#039;re more interested in the nuts and bolts of how things work than some of us actually are.  What matters is, does it work?

In the future, the best thing to do in addition to explaining the problem (which you did patiently and more than adequately) is to explain that you understand you&#039;re still responsible for providing the service, that you failed because of A, B, and C, and that you&#039;re sorry, and here&#039;s how we&#039;re going to prevent it from happening again.  The &quot;saying sorry&quot; part seems trivial because you KNOW what&#039;s happening and feel bad about it, probably, but it is a big part of making us customers comfortable with these two dudes out in cyberspace that we send money to.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I think some of the resentment stems from the fact that in all the communications from you and Scott talking about this problem, there really wasn&#8217;t ever a straight up apology.  It had the tone of &#8220;it was the server&#8217;s fault &#8211; we didn&#8217;t do it!!!&#8221;  </p>
<p>That may seem over-the-top to you, but it&#8217;s important for users that the admins take responsibility for the issue and demonstrate that they understand this is about customer service, not obscure technical issues.  I know you work really hard to make FL a great service, but sometimes I think you might believe we&#8217;re more interested in the nuts and bolts of how things work than some of us actually are.  What matters is, does it work?</p>
<p>In the future, the best thing to do in addition to explaining the problem (which you did patiently and more than adequately) is to explain that you understand you&#8217;re still responsible for providing the service, that you failed because of A, B, and C, and that you&#8217;re sorry, and here&#8217;s how we&#8217;re going to prevent it from happening again.  The &#8220;saying sorry&#8221; part seems trivial because you KNOW what&#8217;s happening and feel bad about it, probably, but it is a big part of making us customers comfortable with these two dudes out in cyberspace that we send money to.  <img src='http://alexking.org/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: will langford</title>
		<link>http://alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga#comment-28860</link>
		<dc:creator>will langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 09:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/05/22/feedlounge-dns-saga/#comment-28860</guid>
		<description>well done, glad DNS is back up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well done, glad DNS is back up!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

