I’m working on the UI in Tasks and Tasks Pro to track how long a task took. This is one of the most requested features and one I almost put into Tasks Pro 1.0. I actually did put the back-end code in place, but didn’t add it to the task form.
So now I’m building the way you enter the time and I’m coming up against a number of interesting issues. I’ve decided to use Hours and Minutes as the time segments; Days is a term that is too hazy to be meaningful.
Sub-task issues
- Do I add up the time spent on sub-tasks and set it for the parent task? I initially thought not, but it might make sense.
- If not, what is the right way to handle time spent for tasks with sub-tasks?
- If I allow you to set a specific amount of time on tasks that have sub-tasks, there is a possibility for that time period to be quite large – is it still meaningful?
Entering data
- Do I allow you to enter an exact # of hours and minutes in text fields or use drop downs?
- If I use drop downs, what should the minute increments be? 5? 10? 15? I think 10-15 would be about right.
- If I use drop downs, how high should the hours go? This ties back in to the question of how to handle time spent for parent tasks.
- Would you realistically be able to use a ‘Start/Stop’ timer to track how long something took? My experience with this is that it works less than 50% of the time because of various interruptions, etc. but maybe this is something you’d like.
If this is a feature you want, how would you want it to work? What decisions would you make?
I will also be adding a ‘Billable’ flag as well, both of these features will be optional (turn them on in your Preferences).
This post is part of the project: Tasks Pro™. View the project timeline for more context on this post.
Some comments, admittedly of a brainstorming nature:
To start off, this is a feature I REALLY would like to see as it would allow me to integrate my time planning and tracking.
I would want to see a calculated sum of subtask times, but not necessarily set that as the parent task time automatically.
A large sum of subtask time is certainly useful (I’m thinking of a five-man team doing a one-year project — mucho hours). The display would need to be smart though — meaning adjustable as I would sometimes want to see “man-days” ie hours divided by a factor like 8, and sometimes the “raw” hours eg. for billing.
I prefer text fields to dropdowns. Is it feasible to have a box with multiple entry possibilities (from, to, break and dropdown duration and text field)? Maybe a user setting stating a default method and a quick way to change it for single entries (heh, and if you could make it pipe coffee out my computer…….).
A nifty feature in the Palm app I use to track time is a “Break” field, so I can enter 9:30 to 11:00, with 20minutes break and it will work out the time spent.
I would want to see multiple durations, so I can track that I spent x hours on a task on one day and y hours the next day. Having this optionally also appear in the iCal could be useful.
I have personally also always found a “Start/Stop” timer to be a pain — don’t let that stop you putting it in, as long as its use isn’t mandatory.
I’m not going to add anything that complex (at least initially, I’m not trying to build a billing app or a calendaring app) but those are interesting ideas.
I don’t think you should shove time up to the parent level–I think you keep it with the sub-tasks. I am thinking granular data here.
We bill in 6-minute increments at work. Realistically, few people use that–I myself tend to bill in half-hours.
Drop-downs do make sense, but I think input boxes make more. It’s not that much effort to type, and with good tabindex numbering in the UI, you’ll be fine.
I agree, I have text boxes in the current prototype.
I would totally use a timer.
Regarding the method of adding time data i.e. open box/drop down box or timer perhaps the answer is to add both (for the future anyway). I think both methods are equally valid for different reasons. A drop down box allows the user to generalise about the time that they add in and its main strength is the flexibility to add time after the event has occurred. The start/stop timer allows a very quick and dirty way to add your time with a single click of a button (preferable if your mind is else ware).
The two main issues with the start/stop method are that users tend to forget about it, therefore adding inaccurate time data. Secondly people think that you need stop the timer and start it again every time you talk to someone in your office, visit the loo or take a telephone call. This is a big misconception, because unless you are off-task for more than xx amount of time (that you decide on) then you just leave it running, clocking up time data as you go. My company has used another app to capture time for many years, which effectively does both; you start the Task running and it enters a time in an open box, you stop it and it adds the time again. The beauty of this is that while you are on that day your times are immediately editable so mistakes etc., can be rectified as per your open box (incidentally the app is ugly, legacy, pc only and with limited potential unlike TaskPro – before anyone asks). The benefit with collecting time like this is that the time data is actually very accurate. If you bill for every 15 or 30 mins then that’s fine because in the reporting section you can round up the bits of time to your billable chunks. But… on the other hand for those of us that are service based, the actual report on the time you spent on the Task/Sub-Task for a given project can be disseminated to see how accurate you actually were, compared to the budget that you set or the amount of hours you allocated to the task. A simple note/memo box attached to each of your durations is a fantastic way of capturing a snapshop of what went (a simple audit trail if you like). Ask any small company how profitable they are and they will rely on their management accounts or something similar. Ask them how profitable they were with regard to time spent against time billed, or how efficient they are on all or specific jobs and they generally don’t have accurate information. If they did then it would allow them to plan their business based on something that was measured and it’s that aspect that makes it as important as generating a bill.
In essence all a start/stop timer is actually doing is reducing the amount of data entry or mouse clicks you have to make to collect your time. Usability and simplicity are paramount if you want to encourage other people to help you accurately bill and plan but most of the clever stuff can be done at the backend i.e. reporting, which I’m sure you will deliver on Alex 😉
I still think that perhaps (and I’m talking in the future versions) time/duration could actually have it’s own menu slot as well as being sub-set of Tasks. Alex, I know you don’t think that perhaps it fits with the current idea behind TasksPro but it could become just as important as the Task system. If you think about the 5-person team scenario as mentioned above you will have several things going on. The team are maybe working on a huge project for a year but the likelihood is that that is interspersed with work on smaller projects that take weeks, days or even hours. As the manager/leader of that team, you can set the Tasks for your people to respond to. Of those people perhaps only one of them is client facing so therefore that person adds/changes the Tasks, the rest of the people may carry out the Task/Sub-Task and sign them off then they are complete. For that company on a day-to-day basis the balance of use for TaskPro changes based on the user. The manager/leader is interacting with TaskPro mainly dealing with the Task issues, the client facing bod is doing a bit of both, but the 3 workers are viewing the tasks, responding where necessary but mostly tracking their time on the parts of the Task. My point being that TaskPro ‘use’ shifts depending on the make up of the company/organisation and its different users and that’s exactly where your multi-user environment is pitching in. If a complicated thing can be done simply then people will use it.
Hope that this contributes to the brainstorming philosophy… even though it’s a bit long!!
I know this is completley unrealated to the topic on hand, i was looking at your software and it a very well organized task manager. It’s absolutley perfect for what we need for managing our web design team. The only feature not available is a file content manager, where we can upload files assigned to a task. Will you be implementing this featuer in the future?
Hi!
Well, I don’t use TasksPro, but I’d recommend using either a text box where people can always enter the number of minutes (they actually spent) when editing a task (like rt (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt) has/had in old versions) or a timer. And don’t forget to add the ability to correct the total time spend.
Plus I’d take two counters for parent tasks, like:
Time Used: 15 mins (30 mins)
The first one could be only for the parent one and the second one could also include all subtasks… 🙂
Christian
Admittedly, I haven’t read all of the comments on this yet … but I would go for a clock-in/clock-out feature that does the math on the back side. Of course, this would require an over-ride feature for when you forget to do it at one point.
Alternatively, I would suggest a box to ‘add time’ along with a current track of the time spent there. This could be a clincher to buy TasksPro BTW (at least for me/us)
Jason
Been looking forward to this for some time! This will replace my custom Filemaker solution I’ve been using for years…
Sub-task issues
1. Yes, total up those subtasks
3. I invoice each month for a task-company-project, so the total of all subtasks is perfect.
Entering data
1. drop-downs or typing in would be fine for me, no preference
2. I prefer 15 min. intervals, but this could be a preference setting
3. Maximum should be 10-24 hrs. I’d just add another task for more time if necessary
4. Start-Stop I would not use right away. Maybe later, and I would round to 15 min. intervals and need to change the value manually as well.
Flagging time as billable is a great idea, so EVERYTHING can be logged, but only the billable tasks, show up for invoicing.
To fully replace my current solution, I’d need:
– The ability to report based on parent tasks (total hours), listing the subtasks with their time and notes of each, so I can create my invoice. Once I create my invoice, I’d like to flag the task as complete and put an invoice number in one of the fields for future reference or searching.
– Also, reports by user, so I know who spent time on what, so I can pay them. Perhaps this is as simple as adding a category field for type of task. Maybe I can use the URL fields for now? hmmm… If there was only a way to group certain tasks and report each based on certain groupings (like priority).
THAT’S IT! Keep up the excellent work!
John, I’m still not seeing your vision of a separate item for tracking time. I think you have to be able to enter the time as part of the task.
Christian, I’m looking at that solution. I think it solves a number of problems.
Jason, I think an ‘Add Time’ button makes sense – especially if there is a ‘Start/Stop’ timer.
Brett, the max task duration is an issue I ran up against regarding totalling up the sub-tasks. That total could run WAY over the reasonable “max” range for a sub-task.
I think I’m going to have the Hours and Minutes fields on all tasks, but also show a read-only total aggregated from the sub-tasks when
showing a task that has sub-tasks (as suggested above).
The start-stop timer makes drop downs and rounding a bit more difficult. I’m not sure I want to automate that, or just record the raw data and let you round it or round it in the reports. I agree with the reporting aspects you’re asking for.
Ok, it was just a suggestion for the future. I agree anyway that the best practise would be to add time to you Task. Separating it out (in addition to the task) could possibly give you an additional revenue stream for people that only want to track time.
Guess you can implement that in the future if it goes like a bomb – keep up the good work.
I think the time each task should have it’s own total, but also have a summary total of all task in the Parent. This would be very helpful for watching projected quoted times. If possible If we could enter a budget time to the task that could be entered and the parent shows the time left on the project budget, and show overbudget time as well.
I think 15 minute increments is pretty standard, it takes that long to get back in to even the simplest of task….
Thanks for a great Task Manager…
Besides projected times, that is actually exactly what I’ve done. I may add projected times in the future.
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