Tuesday’s discussion got me thinking about the differences between Envato’s marketplace and Apple’s Mac App Store.
| Mac App Store | Envato | |
|---|---|---|
| Developer’s revenue share | 70% | 33% (or 50-70% if “exclusive”) |
| Also sell your products on your website or other marketplaces? | Yes | Yes @ 33%, No @ 50-70% |
| Who chooses your software’s license | Developer | Envato |
| Who sets the price of your software? | Developer | Envato |
The more I think about it, the more insane I think it is to choose to do business with Envato given their current terms.
In order to put your products in their marketplace with a semi-reasonable revenue share you are choosing to completely subjugate your business to their whims. You can’t experiment with your product pricing, you can’t try other marketplaces, you can’t sell direct to your customers… you can’t even choose your own software license!
People actually sign up for this?
An interesting look at Envato vs. the Apple app store, from @alexkingorg – http://t.co/bjWxvIaU
Hi everyone,
At the http://webilicity.com/
Developer’s revenue share begins with min: 75%
Sell your products on your website or other marketplaces? YES – You can list your products on Webilicity as well as on other websites simultaneously. We do not force you to be exclusive with us.
Who chooses your software’s license? You, the Developer
Who sets the price of your software? You, the Developer
It will not get better than this! We do our best to help developers, programmers, vendors to sell their goods.
We will sell your work for you as you wish! NOT as we wish!!!
Thanks,
Ozy Oz
http://webilicity.com/
Especially when something like this http://wpappstore.com/developers/, is coming to fruition. Makes me wonder why people wouldn’t start jumping ship in favor of finding something more lucrative for the developer.
@alexkingorg no one can explain to me why its ok for @photomatt to say “my way or don’t participate” but not ok for @envato to so the same.
@skitzzo That is a very disingenuous description of the situation. Matt is simply saying “GPL-way or the highway” which always been the case. WP was, is and forever shall be bound by the rules of GPL v2.8 or 2.9. Envato is simply skirting the license and forcing users to go against the community they’re a part of and developing for. Because of money.
I agree with your sentiment, but I don’t think you are technically corect. Matt is not saying “GPL-way or the highway”, he is saying “GPL-spirit-way or the highway”. This debate has nothing to do with being bound by the rules of the GPL, it’s about using the GPL as a guide for making WordPress more open and accessible via asking theme developers to use that license.
Some good points there. RT @ahockley: An interesting look at Envato vs. the Apple app store, from @alexkingorg – http://t.co/Gn8RLsEa
@andrew_cpht @ahockley @alexkingorg except, you know, that Mac App Store seems to FORBID GPL http://t.co/2Ql6CU17
@Rarst @ahockley @alexkingorg Didn’t know that (i’m not a developer, so not an expert on the subject.) Isn’t the WP app GPL, though?
@Rarst @andrew_cpht @alexkingorg I find the marketplace terms interesting, not the fact that it’s one license vs. another.
While I currently only sell one item on the envato marketplaces, there are pros to listing with them, such as a huge audience to sell to.
I think the greater issue is that good developers are being banned from speaking at WordCamps because they sell on a network WordPress.Org doesn’t like. I’ve been a WP dev for a long time and it’s been very good to me. I will continue to advocate for it, but that policy stance is a bit troubling to me.
To be fair, they DO allow established theme shops to sell on their own websites AND earn 70% on theme sales even though it’s not exclusive. Though, what they do ask is that you do not sell on any OTHER third-party sites. They offered us 70% with the ability to sell on our own site, which seems reasonable enough. We politely declined and moved forward with other distribution strategies, though.
I’m going by their published terms. You see it as a positive that they have secret terms that they make available to only select sellers?
The very nature of their marketplace is based on the leverage of the individual sellers. Sellers with no sales have no leverage while sellers with existing sales channels have a lot of leverage. This is why ThemeForest works. It’s a partnership between sellers and the business that owns the “marketplace.” ThemeForest takes on a high level of risk by marketing and building tools for sellers, then sellers take on very little risk by signing up and posting their own products for sale. They earn a high percentage on sales for being loyal to the marketplace while being able to focus purely on their products and supporting their customers. The majority of sellers don’t have enough leverage to warrant special terms, and that’s ok because it’s ultimately up to the owners of the business to decide that. If a top seller says, “hey, I’m going to leave ThemeForest unless you give me an extra 10% of all sales” ThemeForest could respond by saying, “ok, peace out” or they could actually negotiate some new terms to keep that top seller happy. I don’t know what you would post on your terms and conditions page that accounts for that type of situation.
Negotiating terms for remarketing or reselling products is nothing new. I’m sure there are plenty of WordPress theme shops (among other types of businesses) with affiliate programs that allow certain affiliates to earn higher percentages than other affiliates. This information isn’t published because it’s atypical that an affiliate would have enough leverage to negotiate a higher commission.
I guess when you consider that negotiation is necessary for that type of business, I don’t really see a problem with it personally.
That’s the nature of business. Whenever we’re approached with an opportunity or offer (be it WordPress related or not) we always try negotiate better terms and always try keep those terms private.
Anyway, to answer your question “how could authors sign up to this” is because there is actually a lot of value being on ThemeForest. They pay affiliates out of their 30% cut, they promote ThemeForest at no *direct* expense to you and believe it or not but the founders are great people to deal with. Also let’s not forget that they have 2million registered users… a big number.
ThemeForest has been a big enabler for our theme business. We’ve been able to invest more into our themes and make them better in every way because of the extra revenue we’ve earned from TF.
That’s why we signed up…
~ Dave
That’s interesting. I always wondered what percentage they were giving Obox (who last time I saw said it was worth it). I wonder how many other shops they’ve reached out to. If it’s been a lot, it doesn’t seem many have taken them up on it.
Managing a shop and a presence on a marketplace seems like a convoluted endeavor to me (distribution, support, pricing, etc.).
@alexkingorg exactly why I’ve never even considered selling through Envato.
The reason people sign up for this is that a ton of money is being made. Envato provides an enormous pool of buyers for every theme that is released. Hardly anyone sells non-exclusively (less than 1%?). Most are above 50% and if they do well reach 70% relatively quickly, so there is no shortage of ThemeForest authors netting six figures. Most probably consider that a good setup even if it’s not perfect.
And with that said, my plan is to open a theme shop targeting a specific market for the purpose of having more freedom over pricing, branding, licensing, support. While I’ve been happy with the revenue I currently receive through ThemeForest, I feel that there’s more to be had in the long run by taking a risk and flying solo.
Personally, I think you are not comparing equivalents. You should compare Envato with theme.wordpress.com.
Theme.WP.com
Developers Revenue – 50% and no share of hosting revenue generated
Sell on your site – No (it is one-off to WP to ensure it runs with their hosting service)
Who chooses your license – WP
Who sets your price – WP
Of course there are also many more questions you could ask, which would make it clear why many of us prefer to sell on Envato. But I guess that is not the agenda behind this post is it?
[…] release their work under the GPL, nor can they sell it on their own site. Alex King has a good comparison between Apple and Envato as markets for selling their work. Somewhat surprisingly, by comparison it makes […]
Clear look at Envato’s Theme Forest vs. Apple’s App Store in terms of developer share and control: http://t.co/HZOgopcI /via @alexkingorg